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You can watch The Platform live for less by subscribing to Platform Plus. Support The Platform by joining Platform Plus: https://theplatform.kiwi/platform-plus Download The Platform app for free: App Store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-platform/id1596882626 Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kiwi.theplatform.android Call 0800 DEBATE or text us at 5050 (Standard SMS text charges will apply) Listen to The Platform's straight-talking, free-thinking hosts every weekday. Sean Plunket: 7am - 10am Michael Laws: 10am - 1pm Leah Panapa: 1pm - 4pm #ThePlatformNZ","external_url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmwUKqbZZjw","status":"published","published_at":"2026-07-01T02:53:01Z","transcript_segment_count":200,"content_asset_count":0,"details_json":{"file_name":null,"published_at":"2026-07-01T02:53:01+00:00","transcript_format":"youtube_captions"},"latest_transcript_segments":[{"id":"b5f63748-c0cf-4f23-a877-2b49a85ab925","segment_index":0,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Public submissions close tomorrow"},{"id":"03862279-feec-4b54-bc8d-1b28f8fd9bb2","segment_index":1,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"on New Zealand First's Legalisation"},{"id":"dec2db37-239a-4cb1-83ec-6040a26f82c3","segment_index":2,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Definitions of a Woman and Man 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Close","video_id":"SmwUKqbZZjw","channel_id":"UCYKvkaqOJFwji8-Jgm8pjhA","fetched_at":"2026-07-01T06:08:21.666906+00:00","description":"Jenny Marcroft, NZ First MP - Submissions on the Legislation (Definitions of Woman and Man) Amendment Bill close Thursday night.\n\nWatch The Platform live on YouTube — only $39.99/month!\nJoin now → https://www.youtube.com/@theplatformnz/join\n\nPrefer to save?\nYou can watch The Platform live for less by subscribing to Platform Plus.\n\nSupport The Platform by joining Platform Plus: https://theplatform.kiwi/platform-plus\n\nDownload The Platform app for free:\nApp Store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-platform/id1596882626\nGoogle Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kiwi.theplatform.android\n\nCall 0800 DEBATE or text us at 5050 (Standard SMS text charges will apply)\n\nListen to The Platform's straight-talking, free-thinking hosts every weekday.\nSean Plunket: 7am - 10am\nMichael Laws: 10am - 1pm\nLeah Panapa: 1pm - 4pm\n\n#ThePlatformNZ","topic_seeds":["Recent Submissions"],"caption_kind":"asr_auto","channel_name":"The Platform NZ","published_at":"2026-07-01T02:53:01Z","transcript_text":"Public submissions close tomorrow\non New Zealand First's Legalisation\nDefinitions of a Woman and Man Amendment\nBill, which would legally define a woman\nas an adult human biological female and\na man as an adult human biological male.\nYeah, real real deep stuff, hey?\n>> [laughter]\n>> Uh New Zealand First says the bill\nprovides legal clarity and protects\nsex-based rights. The bill is in the\nname of New Zealand First MP Jenny\nMarcroft and it's good to have you back\non the show, Jenny. Good morning.\n>> Good morning, Leah. Pleasure to be here.\nThank you so much.\n>> Is it uh where are you? In your\nWellington? Is it freezing?\n>> It is fairly freezing, to be fair. Yeah.\nActually actually um\nwe're we're in um Parliament building\nwhere the New Zealand First offices are\nand we had a bit of renovation under the\nfloorboards fixing sort of um fireworks\npipes and stuff like that and um they\ndisconnected the radiators. So yes, it's\nvery freezing inside [laughter] and out.\n>> Well, that was a good move by them,\nwasn't it? Um mind you, Jenny, you know\nwhat it's like. Anyone in the North\nIsland that moans about the cold, the\nSouth Island just go, \"You lot ain't\nknow what cold is, mate. Whatever,\n[laughter] you're so flake.\" Hey, Jenny,\nlook, yeah. Look good good to good to\ntalk to you. Um can we firstly remind\nour listeners what you are hoping to\nachieve with this bill?\n>> Well, the bill Legislation Definitions\nof Woman and Man Amendment Bill uh is\ndesigned to ensure we've got clarity and\nconsistency in our New Zealand law by\ndefining what has become, you know, a\nhandful of very ordinary words, woman,\nman, female, male, um has become\ndestabilized in terms of its their\ndefinitions. And so we're proposing that\nthe bill will amend the Legislation Act\n2019\nto get clear and biologically grounded\nmeanings of those words, woman and man,\nmale and female, across all legislation.\n>> Right. Do you think Kiwis are with you\non this issue, Jenny, but are reluctant\nto speak maybe publicly for fear of\nreprisals?\n>> Well,\nif I break that down a little bit, but I\nthink there's there has been a number of\nsurveys which have suggested over the\nlast few years there's a growing\nawareness of this particular issue and\nthere's growing support for it. And the\nlatest Curia poll uh 51%\nuh woman and man um in law. So, that\nthat has grown over the last few years.\nIf I just look at the emails, Leah, that\nI've received since uh the bill was\ndrawn from the ballot, I've received 59%\nin support, 30% against, and 11%\nneutral. So, that's relatively\nreflective of what we're seeing uh in\nthe polling, the Curia polling, as well.\nUm\nbut I think part of that is also you\nhave to counterbalance the media\ncoverage that we're also seeing. And\nI've done a little bit of a um\nyou know, finger in the wind uh in terms\nof analyzing some media coverage. Now,\nthis is just printed media coverage, so\nonline um written articles.\nAnd surprisingly, or not surprisingly,\nLeah,\num and we didn't include anything from\nthe platform in this. Uh\nwe were there has been 46%\nnegative media coverage and only 13%\npositive coverage about this bill. Uh\n41% is neutral coverage. And you'd want\nto see more neutral coverage, which\nmeans you've then got balanced\nreporting.\n>> Yes.\n>> But to have more negative coverage uh\nseen in the media,\nyou can uh under understand why those\nstatistics around trust in media are,\nyou know, declining.\n>> Yeah, 46% negative.\nYeah.\n>> And don't get the message.\n>> Yeah, the whole silence issue is a\nreally important one that you raised,\nLeah. Because often\nwe're hearing that the social cost of\nspeaking out on this topic feels far too\nhigh. It's a cost people are not\nprepared to pay.\nUm but what we know that polling\nconsistently shows that the positions\nthat are treated as unspeakable, and\nthis is one of them,\nin institutional settings settings,\nactually privately a large majority will\nbe in support of them. So, what we know\nthat is silence is not consensus.\nIt is fear wearing the mask of\nconsensus. And I'll just like to\nhighlight an email one of the emails\nI've received. Now, I'm not going to\ngive you the name of the person that\nsent this email to me, but I think it\nsums up what you're actually asking\nabout in terms of the silence. And this\nwoman says, \"Not a New Zealand First\nvoter.\nUh she doesn't feel able to speak\npublicly about her views for fear of\nbeing called a bigot or a far-right\nextremist. I can't see what is offensive\nabout biology or the definition of\nwoman. Sigh. Um and she also cannot feel\nthat she can make a submission on the\nbill for fear of public persecution.\"\nAnd so, she goes on to say that the\nargument remains one-sided and just know\nthat there are many people out there who\ndon't subscribe to the woke rhetoric.\n>> Genie, I mean, that doesn't surprise me.\nIt saddens me. Um and I spoke last week\nwith a woman who took a petition to\ngovernment. Um she lives in in\nWellington or Hutt Valley, I think. And\nthere was a there's one of the public\npools that she wants to to make sure\nthat there is only a woman's space at\nthe moment. At mean can walk in there.\nUm and a lot of people that she she\nstill got together of quite a few\nsignatures, but she said a majority just\nsaid whilst they agreed, they for those\nreasons you've talked about and read out\nthat that email, they were too scared or\ntoo concerned to put their name to it.\nUm and\nAnd also the thing is when you do these\nsubmissions\nJenny, you can do you can remain\nanonymous, correct or not? Do you have\nto put your name to it?\n>> No, you don't have to put your name to\nit. You can actually ask to have an\nanonymous submission. And then it's in\nprivate and your name is not released.\nSo, but you have to be specific about\nasking for that. And I'm currently in\nthe health committee we're working on\nanother piece of legislation and other\nmembers bill at the moment and that one\nhas a number of anonymous submissions\nthat will be\nhearing\nas well. So, it is not super doesn't\nhappen super often, but on sensitive\ntopics\npeople do use that ability to to remain\nanonymous anonymous.\n>> I'm anonymous. I'm anonymous. Isn't it\nIsn't it Isn't it funny that you had to\nsay, you know, on on on these sensitive\nissues we're talking about biology and\nit's become sensitive. I mean, this is\nthe craziness.\n>> I know it that is the the you know crazy\nstuff talking about. But we know that\nmaterial consequences\nwhether it's sport, whether it's\nsafeguarding obviously in our law that's\nwhy we wanted to fix the law. Um\nThis stuff can't be resolved by\nself-identification alone.\nYeah.\nAnd what what the bill is arguing is\nthat biological sex is a separate real\ncategory with real consequences.\nActually, it can't be dissolved by\ndeclaration.\n>> Mhm.\nUm and just to be clear then Jenny for\nthose listening that have\nbeen holding out or thinking they want\nto submit but are concerned, they can\nstill submit and and their name can be\nleft out.\n>> Correct. So, you've got until 5:00\ntomorrow. So,\na day and a bit to get your submission\nin.\n>> Damn it. Yeah.\n>> Yeah, please get on to it.\n>> And I get this, Ginny, and I do\nunderstand it, but I\nhad a little bit of a rant about it the\nother day on my show, and I said, \"Look,\nI I understand why people are hesitant.\"\nAnd but then, you know, if you want\nthings to change, you know, we have to\nput our heads up above the pulpit, and\nwe have to\nwe have That's the only way things can\ncan change about anything, not just this\nbill, but anything. You know, there's\nthere's power in the people, and\nand we can't expect other people like\nyourself, like the platform, to do all\nthe work and the heavy lifting, even\nthough people\nagree in quiet and silence that they\ndon't like what's going on. I\nLike I said, I I do understand,\nbut, you know, if things are going to\nchange, you have to stand up. And we're\n51% of the population, for God's sake.","duration_seconds":532,"is_auto_generated":true,"transcript_source":"youtube_transcript_api","transcript_status":"available","asr_quality_weight":0.6,"transcript_segments":[{"text":"Public submissions close tomorrow","start":0.0,"duration":5.8},{"text":"on New Zealand First's Legalisation","start":3.6,"duration":5.16},{"text":"Definitions of a Woman and Man Amendment","start":5.8,"duration":5.08},{"text":"Bill, which would legally define a woman","start":8.76,"duration":4.72},{"text":"as an adult human biological female and","start":10.88,"duration":5.4},{"text":"a man as an adult human biological male.","start":13.48,"duration":4.86},{"text":"Yeah, real real deep stuff, hey?","start":16.28,"duration":2.64},{"text":">> [laughter]","start":18.34,"duration":2.26},{"text":">> Uh New Zealand First says the bill","start":18.92,"duration":3.44},{"text":"provides legal clarity and protects","start":20.6,"duration":3.56},{"text":"sex-based rights. The bill is in the","start":22.36,"duration":4.08},{"text":"name of New Zealand First MP Jenny","start":24.16,"duration":4.32},{"text":"Marcroft and it's good to have you back","start":26.44,"duration":4.32},{"text":"on the show, Jenny. Good morning.","start":28.48,"duration":3.959},{"text":">> Good morning, Leah. Pleasure to be here.","start":30.76,"duration":2.88},{"text":"Thank you so much.","start":32.439,"duration":2.921},{"text":">> Is it uh where are you? In your","start":33.64,"duration":3.88},{"text":"Wellington? Is it freezing?","start":35.36,"duration":4.92},{"text":">> It is fairly freezing, to be fair. Yeah.","start":37.52,"duration":4.84},{"text":"Actually actually um","start":40.28,"duration":4.32},{"text":"we're we're in um Parliament building","start":42.36,"duration":4.32},{"text":"where the New Zealand First offices are","start":44.6,"duration":3.68},{"text":"and we had a bit of renovation under the","start":46.68,"duration":4.72},{"text":"floorboards fixing sort of um fireworks","start":48.28,"duration":4.92},{"text":"pipes and stuff like that and um they","start":51.4,"duration":4.56},{"text":"disconnected the radiators. So yes, it's","start":53.2,"duration":6.24},{"text":"very freezing inside [laughter] and out.","start":55.96,"duration":5.16},{"text":">> Well, that was a good move by them,","start":59.44,"duration":4.32},{"text":"wasn't it? Um mind you, Jenny, you know","start":61.12,"duration":3.92},{"text":"what it's like. Anyone in the North","start":63.76,"duration":2.52},{"text":"Island that moans about the cold, the","start":65.04,"duration":2.84},{"text":"South Island just go, \"You lot ain't","start":66.28,"duration":3.805},{"text":"know what cold is, mate. Whatever,","start":67.88,"duration":4.84},{"text":"[laughter] you're so flake.\" Hey, Jenny,","start":70.085,"duration":4.475},{"text":"look, yeah. Look good good to good to","start":72.72,"duration":4.24},{"text":"talk to you. Um can we firstly remind","start":74.56,"duration":4.8},{"text":"our listeners what you are hoping to","start":76.96,"duration":4.92},{"text":"achieve with this bill?","start":79.36,"duration":4.28},{"text":">> Well, the bill Legislation Definitions","start":81.88,"duration":4.12},{"text":"of Woman and Man Amendment Bill uh is","start":83.64,"duration":4.72},{"text":"designed to ensure we've got clarity and","start":86.0,"duration":4.88},{"text":"consistency in our New Zealand law by","start":88.36,"duration":5.96},{"text":"defining what has become, you know, a","start":90.88,"duration":5.48},{"text":"handful of very ordinary words, woman,","start":94.32,"duration":5.44},{"text":"man, female, male, um has become","start":96.36,"duration":6.84},{"text":"destabilized in terms of its their","start":99.76,"duration":6.24},{"text":"definitions. And so we're proposing that","start":103.2,"duration":5.0},{"text":"the bill will amend the Legislation Act","start":106.0,"duration":3.72},{"text":"2019","start":108.2,"duration":3.96},{"text":"to get clear and biologically grounded","start":109.72,"duration":5.12},{"text":"meanings of those words, woman and man,","start":112.16,"duration":6.32},{"text":"male and female, across all legislation.","start":114.84,"duration":6.76},{"text":">> Right. Do you think Kiwis are with you","start":118.48,"duration":5.64},{"text":"on this issue, Jenny, but are reluctant","start":121.6,"duration":4.76},{"text":"to speak maybe publicly for fear of","start":124.12,"duration":4.76},{"text":"reprisals?","start":126.36,"duration":3.92},{"text":">> Well,","start":128.88,"duration":3.52},{"text":"if I break that down a little bit, but I","start":130.28,"duration":4.36},{"text":"think there's there has been a number of","start":132.4,"duration":4.2},{"text":"surveys which have suggested over the","start":134.64,"duration":3.76},{"text":"last few years there's a growing","start":136.6,"duration":4.32},{"text":"awareness of this particular issue and","start":138.4,"duration":4.16},{"text":"there's growing support for it. And the","start":140.92,"duration":6.039},{"text":"latest Curia poll uh 51%","start":142.56,"duration":4.399},{"text":"uh woman and man um in law. So, that","start":147.56,"duration":6.2},{"text":"that has grown over the last few years.","start":151.16,"duration":4.48},{"text":"If I just look at the emails, Leah, that","start":153.76,"duration":3.84},{"text":"I've received since uh the bill was","start":155.64,"duration":5.92},{"text":"drawn from the ballot, I've received 59%","start":157.6,"duration":7.24},{"text":"in support, 30% against, and 11%","start":161.56,"duration":5.399},{"text":"neutral. So, that's relatively","start":164.84,"duration":4.84},{"text":"reflective of what we're seeing uh in","start":166.959,"duration":5.561},{"text":"the polling, the Curia polling, as well.","start":169.68,"duration":4.12},{"text":"Um","start":172.52,"duration":3.84},{"text":"but I think part of that is also you","start":173.8,"duration":4.88},{"text":"have to counterbalance the media","start":176.36,"duration":4.76},{"text":"coverage that we're also seeing. And","start":178.68,"duration":5.0},{"text":"I've done a little bit of a um","start":181.12,"duration":4.88},{"text":"you know, finger in the wind uh in terms","start":183.68,"duration":4.48},{"text":"of analyzing some media coverage. Now,","start":186.0,"duration":5.12},{"text":"this is just printed media coverage, so","start":188.16,"duration":5.76},{"text":"online um written articles.","start":191.12,"duration":5.92},{"text":"And surprisingly, or not surprisingly,","start":193.92,"duration":4.039},{"text":"Leah,","start":197.04,"duration":2.44},{"text":"um and we didn't include anything from","start":197.959,"duration":3.641},{"text":"the platform in this. Uh","start":199.48,"duration":5.56},{"text":"we were there has been 46%","start":201.6,"duration":7.4},{"text":"negative media coverage and only 13%","start":205.04,"duration":7.479},{"text":"positive coverage about this bill. Uh","start":209.0,"duration":6.32},{"text":"41% is neutral coverage. And you'd want","start":212.519,"duration":4.72},{"text":"to see more neutral coverage, which","start":215.32,"duration":3.16},{"text":"means you've then got balanced","start":217.239,"duration":2.081},{"text":"reporting.","start":218.48,"duration":1.16},{"text":">> Yes.","start":219.32,"duration":3.16},{"text":">> But to have more negative coverage uh","start":219.64,"duration":4.56},{"text":"seen in the media,","start":222.48,"duration":5.2},{"text":"you can uh under understand why those","start":224.2,"duration":5.4},{"text":"statistics around trust in media are,","start":227.68,"duration":2.88},{"text":"you know, declining.","start":229.6,"duration":3.72},{"text":">> Yeah, 46% negative.","start":230.56,"duration":3.399},{"text":"Yeah.","start":233.32,"duration":2.96},{"text":">> And don't get the message.","start":233.959,"duration":5.081},{"text":">> Yeah, the whole silence issue is a","start":236.28,"duration":5.16},{"text":"really important one that you raised,","start":239.04,"duration":4.8},{"text":"Leah. Because often","start":241.44,"duration":4.24},{"text":"we're hearing that the social cost of","start":243.84,"duration":3.92},{"text":"speaking out on this topic feels far too","start":245.68,"duration":3.8},{"text":"high. It's a cost people are not","start":247.76,"duration":3.4},{"text":"prepared to pay.","start":249.48,"duration":3.52},{"text":"Um but what we know that polling","start":251.16,"duration":3.64},{"text":"consistently shows that the positions","start":253.0,"duration":3.68},{"text":"that are treated as unspeakable, and","start":254.8,"duration":3.279},{"text":"this is one of them,","start":256.68,"duration":3.32},{"text":"in institutional settings settings,","start":258.079,"duration":5.481},{"text":"actually privately a large majority will","start":260.0,"duration":6.2},{"text":"be in support of them. So, what we know","start":263.56,"duration":5.68},{"text":"that is silence is not consensus.","start":266.2,"duration":4.96},{"text":"It is fear wearing the mask of","start":269.24,"duration":3.84},{"text":"consensus. And I'll just like to","start":271.16,"duration":3.72},{"text":"highlight an email one of the emails","start":273.08,"duration":3.12},{"text":"I've received. Now, I'm not going to","start":274.88,"duration":3.12},{"text":"give you the name of the person that","start":276.2,"duration":3.6},{"text":"sent this email to me, but I think it","start":278.0,"duration":4.32},{"text":"sums up what you're actually asking","start":279.8,"duration":4.24},{"text":"about in terms of the silence. And this","start":282.32,"duration":3.84},{"text":"woman says, \"Not a New Zealand First","start":284.04,"duration":3.16},{"text":"voter.","start":286.16,"duration":3.04},{"text":"Uh she doesn't feel able to speak","start":287.2,"duration":3.68},{"text":"publicly about her views for fear of","start":289.2,"duration":3.719},{"text":"being called a bigot or a far-right","start":290.88,"duration":4.68},{"text":"extremist. I can't see what is offensive","start":292.919,"duration":4.401},{"text":"about biology or the definition of","start":295.56,"duration":5.24},{"text":"woman. Sigh. Um and she also cannot feel","start":297.32,"duration":4.96},{"text":"that she can make a submission on the","start":300.8,"duration":4.44},{"text":"bill for fear of public persecution.\"","start":302.28,"duration":4.92},{"text":"And so, she goes on to say that the","start":305.24,"duration":4.56},{"text":"argument remains one-sided and just know","start":307.2,"duration":4.08},{"text":"that there are many people out there who","start":309.8,"duration":5.4},{"text":"don't subscribe to the woke rhetoric.","start":311.28,"duration":5.92},{"text":">> Genie, I mean, that doesn't surprise me.","start":315.2,"duration":4.96},{"text":"It saddens me. Um and I spoke last week","start":317.2,"duration":4.96},{"text":"with a woman who took a petition to","start":320.16,"duration":4.08},{"text":"government. Um she lives in in","start":322.16,"duration":4.08},{"text":"Wellington or Hutt Valley, I think. And","start":324.24,"duration":4.08},{"text":"there was a there's one of the public","start":326.24,"duration":5.48},{"text":"pools that she wants to to make sure","start":328.32,"duration":5.04},{"text":"that there is only a woman's space at","start":331.72,"duration":3.84},{"text":"the moment. At mean can walk in there.","start":333.36,"duration":4.52},{"text":"Um and a lot of people that she she","start":335.56,"duration":3.92},{"text":"still got together of quite a few","start":337.88,"duration":3.96},{"text":"signatures, but she said a majority just","start":339.48,"duration":5.68},{"text":"said whilst they agreed, they for those","start":341.84,"duration":4.8},{"text":"reasons you've talked about and read out","start":345.16,"duration":4.48},{"text":"that that email, they were too scared or","start":346.64,"duration":6.16},{"text":"too concerned to put their name to it.","start":349.64,"duration":6.0},{"text":"Um and","start":352.8,"duration":5.0},{"text":"And also the thing is when you do these","start":355.64,"duration":3.6},{"text":"submissions","start":357.8,"duration":3.44},{"text":"Jenny, you can do you can remain","start":359.24,"duration":4.04},{"text":"anonymous, correct or not? Do you have","start":361.24,"duration":4.0},{"text":"to put your name to it?","start":363.28,"duration":3.32},{"text":">> No, you don't have to put your name to","start":365.24,"duration":3.48},{"text":"it. You can actually ask to have an","start":366.6,"duration":5.28},{"text":"anonymous submission. And then it's in","start":368.72,"duration":5.04},{"text":"private and your name is not released.","start":371.88,"duration":3.48},{"text":"So, but you have to be specific about","start":373.76,"duration":5.04},{"text":"asking for that. And I'm currently in","start":375.36,"duration":4.88},{"text":"the health committee we're working on","start":378.8,"duration":3.2},{"text":"another piece of legislation and other","start":380.24,"duration":4.8},{"text":"members bill at the moment and that one","start":382.0,"duration":5.24},{"text":"has a number of anonymous submissions","start":385.04,"duration":3.84},{"text":"that will be","start":387.24,"duration":2.72},{"text":"hearing","start":388.88,"duration":5.56},{"text":"as well. So, it is not super doesn't","start":389.96,"duration":6.48},{"text":"happen super often, but on sensitive","start":394.44,"duration":3.24},{"text":"topics","start":396.44,"duration":3.76},{"text":"people do use that ability to to remain","start":397.68,"duration":3.92},{"text":"anonymous anonymous.","start":400.2,"duration":4.04},{"text":">> I'm anonymous. I'm anonymous. Isn't it","start":401.6,"duration":4.84},{"text":"Isn't it Isn't it funny that you had to","start":404.24,"duration":4.2},{"text":"say, you know, on on on these sensitive","start":406.44,"duration":5.6},{"text":"issues we're talking about biology and","start":408.44,"duration":6.32},{"text":"it's become sensitive. I mean, this is","start":412.04,"duration":4.92},{"text":"the craziness.","start":414.76,"duration":5.96},{"text":">> I know it that is the the you know crazy","start":416.96,"duration":6.88},{"text":"stuff talking about. But we know that","start":420.72,"duration":5.32},{"text":"material consequences","start":423.84,"duration":3.48},{"text":"whether it's sport, whether it's","start":426.04,"duration":3.48},{"text":"safeguarding obviously in our law that's","start":427.32,"duration":6.24},{"text":"why we wanted to fix the law. Um","start":429.52,"duration":5.48},{"text":"This stuff can't be resolved by","start":433.56,"duration":3.44},{"text":"self-identification alone.","start":435.0,"duration":3.04},{"text":"Yeah.","start":437.0,"duration":2.8},{"text":"And what what the bill is arguing is","start":438.04,"duration":4.04},{"text":"that biological sex is a separate real","start":439.8,"duration":5.08},{"text":"category with real consequences.","start":442.08,"duration":4.2},{"text":"Actually, it can't be dissolved by","start":444.88,"duration":2.72},{"text":"declaration.","start":446.28,"duration":2.32},{"text":">> Mhm.","start":447.6,"duration":3.56},{"text":"Um and just to be clear then Jenny for","start":448.6,"duration":4.12}],"view_count_at_fetch":195,"transcript_available":true,"transcript_last_attempted_at":"2026-07-01T06:08:23.247076+00:00"},"tags_json":[],"is_discovered_source":false},"transcript":{"segment_count":200,"markdown":"# Transcript\n\n## Segment 1\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nPublic submissions close tomorrow\n\n## Segment 2\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\non New Zealand First's Legalisation\n\n## Segment 3\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nDefinitions of a Woman and Man Amendment\n\n## Segment 4\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nBill, which would legally define a woman\n\n## Segment 5\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nas an adult human biological female and\n\n## Segment 6\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\na man as an adult human biological male.\n\n## Segment 7\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nYeah, real real deep stuff, hey?\n\n## Segment 8\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> [laughter]\n\n## Segment 9\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Uh New Zealand First says the bill\n\n## Segment 10\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nprovides legal clarity and protects\n\n## Segment 11\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsex-based rights. The bill is in the\n\n## Segment 12\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nname of New Zealand First MP Jenny\n\n## Segment 13\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nMarcroft and it's good to have you back\n\n## Segment 14\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\non the show, Jenny. Good morning.\n\n## Segment 15\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Good morning, Leah. Pleasure to be here.\n\n## Segment 16\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nThank you so much.\n\n## Segment 17\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Is it uh where are you? In your\n\n## Segment 18\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nWellington? Is it freezing?\n\n## Segment 19\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> It is fairly freezing, to be fair. Yeah.\n\n## Segment 20\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nActually actually um\n\n## Segment 21\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwe're we're in um Parliament building\n\n## Segment 22\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwhere the New Zealand First offices are\n\n## Segment 23\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nand we had a bit of renovation under the\n\n## Segment 24\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nfloorboards fixing sort of um fireworks\n\n## Segment 25\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\npipes and stuff like that and um they\n\n## Segment 26\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndisconnected the radiators. So yes, it's\n\n## Segment 27\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nvery freezing inside [laughter] and out.\n\n## Segment 28\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Well, that was a good move by them,\n\n## Segment 29\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwasn't it? Um mind you, Jenny, you know\n\n## Segment 30\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwhat it's like. Anyone in the North\n\n## Segment 31\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nIsland that moans about the cold, the\n\n## Segment 32\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nSouth Island just go, \"You lot ain't\n\n## Segment 33\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nknow what cold is, mate. Whatever,\n\n## Segment 34\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n[laughter] you're so flake.\" Hey, Jenny,\n\n## Segment 35\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nlook, yeah. Look good good to good to\n\n## Segment 36\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ntalk to you. Um can we firstly remind\n\n## Segment 37\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nour listeners what you are hoping to\n\n## Segment 38\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nachieve with this bill?\n\n## Segment 39\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Well, the bill Legislation Definitions\n\n## Segment 40\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nof Woman and Man Amendment Bill uh is\n\n## Segment 41\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndesigned to ensure we've got clarity and\n\n## Segment 42\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nconsistency in our New Zealand law by\n\n## Segment 43\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndefining what has become, you know, a\n\n## Segment 44\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhandful of very ordinary words, woman,\n\n## Segment 45\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nman, female, male, um has become\n\n## Segment 46\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndestabilized in terms of its their\n\n## Segment 47\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndefinitions. And so we're proposing that\n\n## Segment 48\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthe bill will amend the Legislation Act\n\n## Segment 49\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n2019\n\n## Segment 50\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nto get clear and biologically grounded\n\n## Segment 51\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nmeanings of those words, woman and man,\n\n## Segment 52\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nmale and female, across all legislation.\n\n## Segment 53\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Right. Do you think Kiwis are with you\n\n## Segment 54\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\non this issue, Jenny, but are reluctant\n\n## Segment 55\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nto speak maybe publicly for fear of\n\n## Segment 56\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nreprisals?\n\n## Segment 57\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Well,\n\n## Segment 58\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nif I break that down a little bit, but I\n\n## Segment 59\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthink there's there has been a number of\n\n## Segment 60\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsurveys which have suggested over the\n\n## Segment 61\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nlast few years there's a growing\n\n## Segment 62\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nawareness of this particular issue and\n\n## Segment 63\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthere's growing support for it. And the\n\n## Segment 64\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nlatest Curia poll uh 51%\n\n## Segment 65\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nuh woman and man um in law. So, that\n\n## Segment 66\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat has grown over the last few years.\n\n## Segment 67\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nIf I just look at the emails, Leah, that\n\n## Segment 68\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nI've received since uh the bill was\n\n## Segment 69\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndrawn from the ballot, I've received 59%\n\n## Segment 70\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nin support, 30% against, and 11%\n\n## Segment 71\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nneutral. So, that's relatively\n\n## Segment 72\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nreflective of what we're seeing uh in\n\n## Segment 73\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthe polling, the Curia polling, as well.\n\n## Segment 74\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nUm\n\n## Segment 75\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nbut I think part of that is also you\n\n## Segment 76\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhave to counterbalance the media\n\n## Segment 77\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ncoverage that we're also seeing. And\n\n## Segment 78\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nI've done a little bit of a um\n\n## Segment 79\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nyou know, finger in the wind uh in terms\n\n## Segment 80\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nof analyzing some media coverage. Now,\n\n## Segment 81\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthis is just printed media coverage, so\n\n## Segment 82\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nonline um written articles.\n\n## Segment 83\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nAnd surprisingly, or not surprisingly,\n\n## Segment 84\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nLeah,\n\n## Segment 85\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\num and we didn't include anything from\n\n## Segment 86\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthe platform in this. Uh\n\n## Segment 87\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwe were there has been 46%\n\n## Segment 88\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nnegative media coverage and only 13%\n\n## Segment 89\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\npositive coverage about this bill. Uh\n\n## Segment 90\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n41% is neutral coverage. And you'd want\n\n## Segment 91\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nto see more neutral coverage, which\n\n## Segment 92\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nmeans you've then got balanced\n\n## Segment 93\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nreporting.\n\n## Segment 94\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Yes.\n\n## Segment 95\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> But to have more negative coverage uh\n\n## Segment 96\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nseen in the media,\n\n## Segment 97\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nyou can uh under understand why those\n\n## Segment 98\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nstatistics around trust in media are,\n\n## Segment 99\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nyou know, declining.\n\n## Segment 100\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Yeah, 46% negative.\n\n## Segment 101\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nYeah.\n\n## Segment 102\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> And don't get the message.\n\n## Segment 103\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Yeah, the whole silence issue is a\n\n## Segment 104\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nreally important one that you raised,\n\n## Segment 105\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nLeah. Because often\n\n## Segment 106\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwe're hearing that the social cost of\n\n## Segment 107\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nspeaking out on this topic feels far too\n\n## Segment 108\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhigh. It's a cost people are not\n\n## Segment 109\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nprepared to pay.\n\n## Segment 110\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nUm but what we know that polling\n\n## Segment 111\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nconsistently shows that the positions\n\n## Segment 112\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat are treated as unspeakable, and\n\n## Segment 113\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthis is one of them,\n\n## Segment 114\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nin institutional settings settings,\n\n## Segment 115\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nactually privately a large majority will\n\n## Segment 116\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nbe in support of them. So, what we know\n\n## Segment 117\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat is silence is not consensus.\n\n## Segment 118\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nIt is fear wearing the mask of\n\n## Segment 119\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nconsensus. And I'll just like to\n\n## Segment 120\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhighlight an email one of the emails\n\n## Segment 121\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nI've received. Now, I'm not going to\n\n## Segment 122\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ngive you the name of the person that\n\n## Segment 123\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsent this email to me, but I think it\n\n## Segment 124\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsums up what you're actually asking\n\n## Segment 125\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nabout in terms of the silence. And this\n\n## Segment 126\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwoman says, \"Not a New Zealand First\n\n## Segment 127\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nvoter.\n\n## Segment 128\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nUh she doesn't feel able to speak\n\n## Segment 129\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\npublicly about her views for fear of\n\n## Segment 130\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nbeing called a bigot or a far-right\n\n## Segment 131\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nextremist. I can't see what is offensive\n\n## Segment 132\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nabout biology or the definition of\n\n## Segment 133\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwoman. Sigh. Um and she also cannot feel\n\n## Segment 134\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat she can make a submission on the\n\n## Segment 135\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nbill for fear of public persecution.\"\n\n## Segment 136\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nAnd so, she goes on to say that the\n\n## Segment 137\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nargument remains one-sided and just know\n\n## Segment 138\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat there are many people out there who\n\n## Segment 139\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndon't subscribe to the woke rhetoric.\n\n## Segment 140\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Genie, I mean, that doesn't surprise me.\n\n## Segment 141\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nIt saddens me. Um and I spoke last week\n\n## Segment 142\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwith a woman who took a petition to\n\n## Segment 143\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ngovernment. Um she lives in in\n\n## Segment 144\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nWellington or Hutt Valley, I think. And\n\n## Segment 145\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthere was a there's one of the public\n\n## Segment 146\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\npools that she wants to to make sure\n\n## Segment 147\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat there is only a woman's space at\n\n## Segment 148\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthe moment. At mean can walk in there.\n\n## Segment 149\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nUm and a lot of people that she she\n\n## Segment 150\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nstill got together of quite a few\n\n## Segment 151\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsignatures, but she said a majority just\n\n## Segment 152\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsaid whilst they agreed, they for those\n\n## Segment 153\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nreasons you've talked about and read out\n\n## Segment 154\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat that email, they were too scared or\n\n## Segment 155\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ntoo concerned to put their name to it.\n\n## Segment 156\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nUm and\n\n## Segment 157\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nAnd also the thing is when you do these\n\n## Segment 158\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsubmissions\n\n## Segment 159\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nJenny, you can do you can remain\n\n## Segment 160\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nanonymous, correct or not? Do you have\n\n## Segment 161\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nto put your name to it?\n\n## Segment 162\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> No, you don't have to put your name to\n\n## Segment 163\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nit. You can actually ask to have an\n\n## Segment 164\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nanonymous submission. And then it's in\n\n## Segment 165\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nprivate and your name is not released.\n\n## Segment 166\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nSo, but you have to be specific about\n\n## Segment 167\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nasking for that. And I'm currently in\n\n## Segment 168\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthe health committee we're working on\n\n## Segment 169\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nanother piece of legislation and other\n\n## Segment 170\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nmembers bill at the moment and that one\n\n## Segment 171\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhas a number of anonymous submissions\n\n## Segment 172\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat will be\n\n## Segment 173\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhearing\n\n## Segment 174\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nas well. So, it is not super doesn't\n\n## Segment 175\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nhappen super often, but on sensitive\n\n## Segment 176\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ntopics\n\n## Segment 177\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\npeople do use that ability to to remain\n\n## Segment 178\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nanonymous anonymous.\n\n## Segment 179\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> I'm anonymous. I'm anonymous. Isn't it\n\n## Segment 180\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nIsn't it Isn't it funny that you had to\n\n## Segment 181\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsay, you know, on on on these sensitive\n\n## Segment 182\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nissues we're talking about biology and\n\n## Segment 183\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nit's become sensitive. I mean, this is\n\n## Segment 184\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthe craziness.\n\n## Segment 185\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> I know it that is the the you know crazy\n\n## Segment 186\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nstuff talking about. But we know that\n\n## Segment 187\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nmaterial consequences\n\n## Segment 188\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwhether it's sport, whether it's\n\n## Segment 189\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nsafeguarding obviously in our law that's\n\n## Segment 190\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nwhy we wanted to fix the law. Um\n\n## Segment 191\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nThis stuff can't be resolved by\n\n## Segment 192\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nself-identification alone.\n\n## Segment 193\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nYeah.\n\n## Segment 194\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nAnd what what the bill is arguing is\n\n## Segment 195\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nthat biological sex is a separate real\n\n## Segment 196\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ncategory with real consequences.\n\n## Segment 197\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nActually, it can't be dissolved by\n\n## Segment 198\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\ndeclaration.\n\n## Segment 199\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\n>> Mhm.\n\n## Segment 200\n\n**Speaker:** Unknown speaker\n\nUm and just to be clear then Jenny for","text":"[segment 0] Unknown speaker: Public submissions close tomorrow\n[segment 1] Unknown speaker: on New Zealand First's Legalisation\n[segment 2] Unknown speaker: Definitions of a Woman and Man Amendment\n[segment 3] Unknown speaker: Bill, which would legally define a woman\n[segment 4] Unknown speaker: as an adult human biological female and\n[segment 5] Unknown speaker: a man as an adult human biological male.\n[segment 6] Unknown speaker: Yeah, real real deep stuff, hey?\n[segment 7] Unknown speaker: >> [laughter]\n[segment 8] Unknown speaker: >> Uh New Zealand First says the bill\n[segment 9] Unknown speaker: provides legal clarity and protects\n[segment 10] Unknown speaker: sex-based rights. The bill is in the\n[segment 11] Unknown speaker: name of New Zealand First MP Jenny\n[segment 12] Unknown speaker: Marcroft and it's good to have you back\n[segment 13] Unknown speaker: on the show, Jenny. Good morning.\n[segment 14] Unknown speaker: >> Good morning, Leah. Pleasure to be here.\n[segment 15] Unknown speaker: Thank you so much.\n[segment 16] Unknown speaker: >> Is it uh where are you? In your\n[segment 17] Unknown speaker: Wellington? Is it freezing?\n[segment 18] Unknown speaker: >> It is fairly freezing, to be fair. Yeah.\n[segment 19] Unknown speaker: Actually actually um\n[segment 20] Unknown speaker: we're we're in um Parliament building\n[segment 21] Unknown speaker: where the New Zealand First offices are\n[segment 22] Unknown speaker: and we had a bit of renovation under the\n[segment 23] Unknown speaker: floorboards fixing sort of um fireworks\n[segment 24] Unknown speaker: pipes and stuff like that and um they\n[segment 25] Unknown speaker: disconnected the radiators. So yes, it's\n[segment 26] Unknown speaker: very freezing inside [laughter] and out.\n[segment 27] Unknown speaker: >> Well, that was a good move by them,\n[segment 28] Unknown speaker: wasn't it? Um mind you, Jenny, you know\n[segment 29] Unknown speaker: what it's like. Anyone in the North\n[segment 30] Unknown speaker: Island that moans about the cold, the\n[segment 31] Unknown speaker: South Island just go, \"You lot ain't\n[segment 32] Unknown speaker: know what cold is, mate. Whatever,\n[segment 33] Unknown speaker: [laughter] you're so flake.\" Hey, Jenny,\n[segment 34] Unknown speaker: look, yeah. Look good good to good to\n[segment 35] Unknown speaker: talk to you. Um can we firstly remind\n[segment 36] Unknown speaker: our listeners what you are hoping to\n[segment 37] Unknown speaker: achieve with this bill?\n[segment 38] Unknown speaker: >> Well, the bill Legislation Definitions\n[segment 39] Unknown speaker: of Woman and Man Amendment Bill uh is\n[segment 40] Unknown speaker: designed to ensure we've got clarity and\n[segment 41] Unknown speaker: consistency in our New Zealand law by\n[segment 42] Unknown speaker: defining what has become, you know, a\n[segment 43] Unknown speaker: handful of very ordinary words, woman,\n[segment 44] Unknown speaker: man, female, male, um has become\n[segment 45] Unknown speaker: destabilized in terms of its their\n[segment 46] Unknown speaker: definitions. And so we're proposing that\n[segment 47] Unknown speaker: the bill will amend the Legislation Act\n[segment 48] Unknown speaker: 2019\n[segment 49] Unknown speaker: to get clear and biologically grounded\n[segment 50] Unknown speaker: meanings of those words, woman and man,\n[segment 51] Unknown speaker: male and female, across all legislation.\n[segment 52] Unknown speaker: >> Right. Do you think Kiwis are with you\n[segment 53] Unknown speaker: on this issue, Jenny, but are reluctant\n[segment 54] Unknown speaker: to speak maybe publicly for fear of\n[segment 55] Unknown speaker: reprisals?\n[segment 56] Unknown speaker: >> Well,\n[segment 57] Unknown speaker: if I break that down a little bit, but I\n[segment 58] Unknown speaker: think there's there has been a number of\n[segment 59] Unknown speaker: surveys which have suggested over the\n[segment 60] Unknown speaker: last few years there's a growing\n[segment 61] Unknown speaker: awareness of this particular issue and\n[segment 62] Unknown speaker: there's growing support for it. And the\n[segment 63] Unknown speaker: latest Curia poll uh 51%\n[segment 64] Unknown speaker: uh woman and man um in law. So, that\n[segment 65] Unknown speaker: that has grown over the last few years.\n[segment 66] Unknown speaker: If I just look at the emails, Leah, that\n[segment 67] Unknown speaker: I've received since uh the bill was\n[segment 68] Unknown speaker: drawn from the ballot, I've received 59%\n[segment 69] Unknown speaker: in support, 30% against, and 11%\n[segment 70] Unknown speaker: neutral. So, that's relatively\n[segment 71] Unknown speaker: reflective of what we're seeing uh in\n[segment 72] Unknown speaker: the polling, the Curia polling, as well.\n[segment 73] Unknown speaker: Um\n[segment 74] Unknown speaker: but I think part of that is also you\n[segment 75] Unknown speaker: have to counterbalance the media\n[segment 76] Unknown speaker: coverage that we're also seeing. And\n[segment 77] Unknown speaker: I've done a little bit of a um\n[segment 78] Unknown speaker: you know, finger in the wind uh in terms\n[segment 79] Unknown speaker: of analyzing some media coverage. Now,\n[segment 80] Unknown speaker: this is just printed media coverage, so\n[segment 81] Unknown speaker: online um written articles.\n[segment 82] Unknown speaker: And surprisingly, or not surprisingly,\n[segment 83] Unknown speaker: Leah,\n[segment 84] Unknown speaker: um and we didn't include anything from\n[segment 85] Unknown speaker: the platform in this. Uh\n[segment 86] Unknown speaker: we were there has been 46%\n[segment 87] Unknown speaker: negative media coverage and only 13%\n[segment 88] Unknown speaker: positive coverage about this bill. Uh\n[segment 89] Unknown speaker: 41% is neutral coverage. And you'd want\n[segment 90] Unknown speaker: to see more neutral coverage, which\n[segment 91] Unknown speaker: means you've then got balanced\n[segment 92] Unknown speaker: reporting.\n[segment 93] Unknown speaker: >> Yes.\n[segment 94] Unknown speaker: >> But to have more negative coverage uh\n[segment 95] Unknown speaker: seen in the media,\n[segment 96] Unknown speaker: you can uh under understand why those\n[segment 97] Unknown speaker: statistics around trust in media are,\n[segment 98] Unknown speaker: you know, declining.\n[segment 99] Unknown speaker: >> Yeah, 46% negative.\n[segment 100] Unknown speaker: Yeah.\n[segment 101] Unknown speaker: >> And don't get the message.\n[segment 102] Unknown speaker: >> Yeah, the whole silence issue is a\n[segment 103] Unknown speaker: really important one that you raised,\n[segment 104] Unknown speaker: Leah. Because often\n[segment 105] Unknown speaker: we're hearing that the social cost of\n[segment 106] Unknown speaker: speaking out on this topic feels far too\n[segment 107] Unknown speaker: high. It's a cost people are not\n[segment 108] Unknown speaker: prepared to pay.\n[segment 109] Unknown speaker: Um but what we know that polling\n[segment 110] Unknown speaker: consistently shows that the positions\n[segment 111] Unknown speaker: that are treated as unspeakable, and\n[segment 112] Unknown speaker: this is one of them,\n[segment 113] Unknown speaker: in institutional settings settings,\n[segment 114] Unknown speaker: actually privately a large majority will\n[segment 115] Unknown speaker: be in support of them. So, what we know\n[segment 116] Unknown speaker: that is silence is not consensus.\n[segment 117] Unknown speaker: It is fear wearing the mask of\n[segment 118] Unknown speaker: consensus. And I'll just like to\n[segment 119] Unknown speaker: highlight an email one of the emails\n[segment 120] Unknown speaker: I've received. Now, I'm not going to\n[segment 121] Unknown speaker: give you the name of the person that\n[segment 122] Unknown speaker: sent this email to me, but I think it\n[segment 123] Unknown speaker: sums up what you're actually asking\n[segment 124] Unknown speaker: about in terms of the silence. And this\n[segment 125] Unknown speaker: woman says, \"Not a New Zealand First\n[segment 126] Unknown speaker: voter.\n[segment 127] Unknown speaker: Uh she doesn't feel able to speak\n[segment 128] Unknown speaker: publicly about her views for fear of\n[segment 129] Unknown speaker: being called a bigot or a far-right\n[segment 130] Unknown speaker: extremist. I can't see what is offensive\n[segment 131] Unknown speaker: about biology or the definition of\n[segment 132] Unknown speaker: woman. Sigh. Um and she also cannot feel\n[segment 133] Unknown speaker: that she can make a submission on the\n[segment 134] Unknown speaker: bill for fear of public persecution.\"\n[segment 135] Unknown speaker: And so, she goes on to say that the\n[segment 136] Unknown speaker: argument remains one-sided and just know\n[segment 137] Unknown speaker: that there are many people out there who\n[segment 138] Unknown speaker: don't subscribe to the woke rhetoric.\n[segment 139] Unknown speaker: >> Genie, I mean, that doesn't surprise me.\n[segment 140] Unknown speaker: It saddens me. Um and I spoke last week\n[segment 141] Unknown speaker: with a woman who took a petition to\n[segment 142] Unknown speaker: government. Um she lives in in\n[segment 143] Unknown speaker: Wellington or Hutt Valley, I think. And\n[segment 144] Unknown speaker: there was a there's one of the public\n[segment 145] Unknown speaker: pools that she wants to to make sure\n[segment 146] Unknown speaker: that there is only a woman's space at\n[segment 147] Unknown speaker: the moment. At mean can walk in there.\n[segment 148] Unknown speaker: Um and a lot of people that she she\n[segment 149] Unknown speaker: still got together of quite a few\n[segment 150] Unknown speaker: signatures, but she said a majority just\n[segment 151] Unknown speaker: said whilst they agreed, they for those\n[segment 152] Unknown speaker: reasons you've talked about and read out\n[segment 153] Unknown speaker: that that email, they were too scared or\n[segment 154] Unknown speaker: too concerned to put their name to it.\n[segment 155] Unknown speaker: Um and\n[segment 156] Unknown speaker: And also the thing is when you do these\n[segment 157] Unknown speaker: submissions\n[segment 158] Unknown speaker: Jenny, you can do you can remain\n[segment 159] Unknown speaker: anonymous, correct or not? Do you have\n[segment 160] Unknown speaker: to put your name to it?\n[segment 161] Unknown speaker: >> No, you don't have to put your name to\n[segment 162] Unknown speaker: it. You can actually ask to have an\n[segment 163] Unknown speaker: anonymous submission. And then it's in\n[segment 164] Unknown speaker: private and your name is not released.\n[segment 165] Unknown speaker: So, but you have to be specific about\n[segment 166] Unknown speaker: asking for that. And I'm currently in\n[segment 167] Unknown speaker: the health committee we're working on\n[segment 168] Unknown speaker: another piece of legislation and other\n[segment 169] Unknown speaker: members bill at the moment and that one\n[segment 170] Unknown speaker: has a number of anonymous submissions\n[segment 171] Unknown speaker: that will be\n[segment 172] Unknown speaker: hearing\n[segment 173] Unknown speaker: as well. So, it is not super doesn't\n[segment 174] Unknown speaker: happen super often, but on sensitive\n[segment 175] Unknown speaker: topics\n[segment 176] Unknown speaker: people do use that ability to to remain\n[segment 177] Unknown speaker: anonymous anonymous.\n[segment 178] Unknown speaker: >> I'm anonymous. I'm anonymous. Isn't it\n[segment 179] Unknown speaker: Isn't it Isn't it funny that you had to\n[segment 180] Unknown speaker: say, you know, on on on these sensitive\n[segment 181] Unknown speaker: issues we're talking about biology and\n[segment 182] Unknown speaker: it's become sensitive. I mean, this is\n[segment 183] Unknown speaker: the craziness.\n[segment 184] Unknown speaker: >> I know it that is the the you know crazy\n[segment 185] Unknown speaker: stuff talking about. But we know that\n[segment 186] Unknown speaker: material consequences\n[segment 187] Unknown speaker: whether it's sport, whether it's\n[segment 188] Unknown speaker: safeguarding obviously in our law that's\n[segment 189] Unknown speaker: why we wanted to fix the law. Um\n[segment 190] Unknown speaker: This stuff can't be resolved by\n[segment 191] Unknown speaker: self-identification alone.\n[segment 192] Unknown speaker: Yeah.\n[segment 193] Unknown speaker: And what what the bill is arguing is\n[segment 194] Unknown speaker: that biological sex is a separate real\n[segment 195] Unknown speaker: category with real consequences.\n[segment 196] Unknown speaker: Actually, it can't be dissolved by\n[segment 197] Unknown speaker: declaration.\n[segment 198] Unknown speaker: >> Mhm.\n[segment 199] Unknown speaker: Um and just to be clear then Jenny for","segments":[{"id":"b5f63748-c0cf-4f23-a877-2b49a85ab925","segment_index":0,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Public submissions close tomorrow"},{"id":"03862279-feec-4b54-bc8d-1b28f8fd9bb2","segment_index":1,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"on New Zealand First's Legalisation"},{"id":"dec2db37-239a-4cb1-83ec-6040a26f82c3","segment_index":2,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Definitions of a Woman and Man Amendment"},{"id":"1bbfb414-5b5d-4790-b643-e1c90a50f408","segment_index":3,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Bill, which would legally define a woman"},{"id":"9f8eac6b-ddd0-4aea-bcbb-c842a99f5901","segment_index":4,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"as an adult human biological female and"},{"id":"733a3c80-243b-4df8-a2f8-c9c56cbe0d44","segment_index":5,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"a man as an adult human biological male."},{"id":"db8c7c58-a996-47ee-bea4-6f5c341e3ddf","segment_index":6,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Yeah, real real deep stuff, hey?"},{"id":"08305e4c-616b-4d90-beb3-58d8a50a7e93","segment_index":7,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> [laughter]"},{"id":"a66e43bc-a5da-4b99-acfb-1b384830712c","segment_index":8,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> Uh New Zealand First says the bill"},{"id":"73e31416-23a3-42dd-95f0-1249a5c84f73","segment_index":9,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"provides legal clarity and protects"},{"id":"096b6865-6ba1-43ac-b808-843b1292a815","segment_index":10,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"sex-based rights. The bill is in the"},{"id":"767cffbf-e2b1-48d9-9fd8-2187131fe584","segment_index":11,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"name of New Zealand First MP Jenny"},{"id":"c5ab37d1-b813-4aff-8f9a-bfacec70dd01","segment_index":12,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Marcroft and it's good to have you back"},{"id":"20d3ea54-c2ed-432b-9fca-373844829252","segment_index":13,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"on the show, Jenny. Good morning."},{"id":"1f4a4207-be1f-4d58-a116-02d26ccc1ee7","segment_index":14,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> Good morning, Leah. Pleasure to be here."},{"id":"d9ff6931-4d3e-4eee-a0d0-cea14fcfa256","segment_index":15,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Thank you so much."},{"id":"f9830379-fb75-43cd-9e14-12cae5150c32","segment_index":16,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> Is it uh where are you? In your"},{"id":"8b3f0c62-9bda-4fc0-a0de-0d0f76f46769","segment_index":17,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Wellington? Is it freezing?"},{"id":"64a8fefd-de0b-4f2d-8b7b-9691bd46f412","segment_index":18,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> It is fairly freezing, to be fair. Yeah."},{"id":"35f84122-a3f9-4576-ac4e-b0c47e0fbd2f","segment_index":19,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Actually actually um"},{"id":"926bf4c5-0225-435c-9710-ead564ab3bd6","segment_index":20,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"we're we're in um Parliament building"},{"id":"acfd2ff2-4bdc-4cb3-bc85-683d66f965f3","segment_index":21,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"where the New Zealand First offices are"},{"id":"34e53acb-77ac-4cc5-82bb-58c5b38500b6","segment_index":22,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"and we had a bit of renovation under the"},{"id":"f46e85e9-1dbc-4fc0-b4f0-75d3fcdcec4d","segment_index":23,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"floorboards fixing sort of um fireworks"},{"id":"b833d808-a2b6-4cc6-8d2a-90566a23ce24","segment_index":24,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"pipes and stuff like that and um they"},{"id":"b46f97a4-5e5d-428d-8105-ea17e58aef25","segment_index":25,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"disconnected the radiators. So yes, it's"},{"id":"2acdce2c-ac23-472e-ae9f-11c8ac317244","segment_index":26,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"very freezing inside [laughter] and out."},{"id":"0edd2087-30e2-42f6-8c38-6c156dea5ea2","segment_index":27,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> Well, that was a good move by them,"},{"id":"f68df94f-c06d-4b7a-9a6f-0eb830b577d2","segment_index":28,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"wasn't it? Um mind you, Jenny, you know"},{"id":"e2fc5ec1-5290-4969-855f-d0f61f347e67","segment_index":29,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"what it's like. Anyone in the North"},{"id":"ad4a01df-e0f5-45d3-9691-3a159c653757","segment_index":30,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"Island that moans about the cold, the"},{"id":"71215014-8dbf-4581-a15d-1a75ac26b219","segment_index":31,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"South Island just go, \"You lot ain't"},{"id":"9e35ce9c-9794-49ba-816f-9c0c96b591a3","segment_index":32,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"know what cold is, mate. Whatever,"},{"id":"ba4f5c49-1b81-45b8-988c-042b4263f837","segment_index":33,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"[laughter] you're so flake.\" Hey, Jenny,"},{"id":"e261e67a-7d96-417c-81a2-be1c4f20435c","segment_index":34,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"look, yeah. Look good good to good to"},{"id":"ef1393d8-e305-497e-a4f3-d3631dfe6017","segment_index":35,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"talk to you. Um can we firstly remind"},{"id":"38b53265-e4c9-4b08-8825-270f493ac838","segment_index":36,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"our listeners what you are hoping to"},{"id":"eacc9923-4bd2-4795-86c1-fb6bdf12951b","segment_index":37,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"achieve with this bill?"},{"id":"db1e43d2-3074-419a-9c10-3fb0bbd81df5","segment_index":38,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> Well, the bill Legislation Definitions"},{"id":"f027c553-c585-4785-9a12-f88fb9e1022e","segment_index":39,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"of Woman and Man Amendment Bill uh is"},{"id":"478cd637-5866-4ea4-9ba9-16c8dc2c7868","segment_index":40,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"designed to ensure we've got clarity and"},{"id":"71171e5d-2c09-4a71-b59c-c3e6c59a2f73","segment_index":41,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"consistency in our New Zealand law by"},{"id":"779150c7-c3a4-42be-9ac1-4f4a3522fbcc","segment_index":42,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"defining what has become, you know, a"},{"id":"619e05f0-7f79-4462-aaa1-cd3b2377734b","segment_index":43,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"handful of very ordinary words, woman,"},{"id":"aa5fb1cb-d815-40b9-984a-9c6b74ac5639","segment_index":44,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"man, female, male, um has become"},{"id":"8cd028f3-b313-4a15-a62b-c4677eb33156","segment_index":45,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"destabilized in terms of its their"},{"id":"7a594031-179b-4d3a-b2d5-703f7ff72fac","segment_index":46,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"definitions. And so we're proposing that"},{"id":"b39a812a-579b-42d4-a5ff-16f3f5839f10","segment_index":47,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"the bill will amend the Legislation Act"},{"id":"ffe7979d-3127-40ca-b30d-43885ccaa7b4","segment_index":48,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"2019"},{"id":"e1af3417-ac6c-4a4c-aaa3-2cc5060d798f","segment_index":49,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"to get clear and biologically grounded"},{"id":"d66dfd20-5478-4ef7-acef-08894157a9fb","segment_index":50,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"meanings of those words, woman and man,"},{"id":"789104a9-906f-48de-800b-a74c2c84e5f7","segment_index":51,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":"male and female, across all legislation."},{"id":"5065fbc3-27c2-4496-8673-53ece0f11abd","segment_index":52,"speaker_name":null,"start_seconds":null,"end_seconds":null,"text":">> Right. 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